Nike Parkour shoe concept (feeback needed!)

[vocaldigital23]

Hey guys,

Some of you may have seen a Puma shoe I designed for Parkour a few years ago. It was very conceptual, and I had been wanting to improve and redesign it based on what traceurs had to say and what they really wanted. I don't know how many of you also frequent the APK boards, but I have been posting some early concepts on there and revising it along the way as I got feedback. Ultimately, I decided to do a series of three shoes: Beginner, intermediate, and elite training. The idea being to create a shoe that is closer to barefoot with each progression. I have started with the elite model and would love to see what you guys think about it! FYI, this model features an articulated Zoom air bag for cushioning. The layout is rough, but I hope you like them! All feedback is welcome- positive or negative.

[David.]

You have to think about what cost that would be

Why would people spend a lot of money e.g. £80 on this parkour shoe when they can go out and buy Nike Darts for under £30? Considering darts are seen as one of the best shoes for parkour at the moment why look elsewhere for double or triple the cost.

Also personally i hate the random rip down the middle, my friend has shoes like that and I just don't see the point.

Nike Frees also fill the almost barefoot niche.

[Hsad]

The socks remind me of tabi (ninja boots). What is the use of the split toe? I have never encounted a rope out in the street =). How would the inter locking strap work? Or is it always together?

Unless the shoes are cheap, dedicated parkour practitoners would only buy the shoes to be able to work their way to bare feet. If they are expensive then most of the sales will be from people trying to prove that they do parkour, and in my mind that is just a dirty sales technique. (I got 5.10 freerunners for chrismass and the arch is too high so i perfer my old running shoes over them.)

Another problem you may face is that people have diferent sized and spaced big toe's so the split toe could make it hard for some people to wear.

I hope you succed in making a great parkour shoe. But the core thing to remeber (i think) is that is has to be cheap and/or last a realy long time. (were cheap about shoes considering that its our only piece of equipment)

Good luck - Dash

[Sam H]

Looks like a positive initiative. A couple of questions:

1. Because it is making use of existing technologies, do you have to use the split toe design?
2. Can the neoprene sock be short, like ankle socks, or does it have to come up the ankle like the sock picture?
3. The use of molded footwear indicates that this would keep the price down. What sort of price range do you expect for the three shoes?
4. The fastening system looks interesting. Will it offer the same range of adjustability as laces?

For me, the ideal shoe would be a lace up Nike Free with real rubber on the sole instead of that artificial plastic stuff stuck on the foam. The plastic and foam gets destroyed far too easily and the neoprene/lycra innner sock needs to enclose the foot inside the shoe, especially at the end for the toes. If you wear no socks in a current pair, the top of your toes get rubbed raw by the underside of the upper. The rubber should come up the front and over the top of the shoe enough to stay fixed to the shoe without peeling off on those high impact arm jumps.

My priorities when buying shoes for parkour are:
1. flat real rubber sole from the ball of the foot forward.
2. price (my shoes tend to last only 6 or 7 weeks with about 5 trainings of about 2-3 hrs per week wearing shoes. Less if I'm doing lots of higher impact training and more if I'm training more technically and less impact).

I look forward to the day a comfortable, cheap, grippy, strong pair of shoes is put on the market

[vocaldigital23]

Thanks for the input guys!

The shoe was definitely designed with durability in mind. Obviously, yes, it needs testing to all be substantiated, but the best rubbers would be used. The whole idea was to create a cheap, recyclable shell that you can replace for 30-40 bucks while keeping the sock (which would be washable) and mixing and matching colors etc. The molded footwear is cheap because there is no labor involved with stitching in linings, foams, counters etc. But it also works perfectly here because it stretches to form to the foot, has no seams to rip or wear, and lasts a long time!

Again, as stated, the split toe was to bring the foot closer to it's natural state and increase balance/agility as well as the ability to grip link fences, ropes and crevices. it may not be for everyone, but again this is for the extreme trainer and the other 2 models will have more cushioning, more support, and no split toe. I was finding it impossible to please everybody with one design!

I don't think the fit of the toe would be an issue. The material expands well and should conform snugly to most feet.

The strap is designed to simply keep the shoe on your foot. It does tighten a little, but these would really have the feel of wearing socks more than tightly laced shoes. Again, maybe not for everyone.

For flexibility, the outsole does feature the articulation of Nike free for that exact reason. It will be a staple across the line with a more durable application

Thanks again to all! I am about in the middle of finishing this shoe, so I will update in the future as well as getting input on the less advanced models.

Sam- you're right. I thought the neoprene pad over the malleolus(ankle bone) might be a nice secure feel in harsh environments, but I think there could easily be socks of different materials and heights for different preferences. I will implement that for sure!

-TH

[Robin]

Anyone trained barefoot before?
When I've been doing balancing on rails I noticed That you've got alot more control on the rail by using your toes to almost grip the rail. Other than I don't see any other use for the split in the shoe. I also agree witht he first post.

After having read your new post I am interesting in the making of this shoe.

[poetry]

I am really into my trainers in general and have always admired trainers that have a unique look to them, if they are also practical for Parkour then this is one pair of trainers I would definetly spend money on. Another think like nike drift (to my knowledge orginally for long distant runnings, Kenya first had them) I think its style will be something everyone will like in a trainer.

If I saw these trainers out tomorrow I would buy myself a white and a black pair as trainers to wear both for parkour and also for fashion when just relaxing

[Animesh]

I've never experienced a parkour specific shoe but the split toe doesn't make sense!
anyhow overall design seems really interesting and I would to give it a try(if they launch them in India to)
I'm also asking some feedback from friends and will post back soon.

[poetry]

I love the split toe look, my original, my pair of nike drift are great for jogging in, my newer leather pair feel a little too tight for running. What would be really interesting is if you could by ever the split toe or the normal toe, Personal I'm in the corner for the split toe but thats just my personal favourite looking trainer Nike drifts and also the concept trainers from mirrors edge look cool

[Kev]

Right. This post may be a bit harsh, so I apologise in advance.

Your idea is quite flawed...progressing to Barefoot? That is not how we train at all. The whole idea of Barefoot training si to teach proper technique; i.e. effective shock absorbtion. Once your technique is down (i.e. effective shock absorbtion with minimal damage to yourself) you shouldn't train barefoot. Why? Quite simple...you get stress fractures in your feet by walking...why subject your body to the extremities if it is unnecessary. Basically, the idea should be reversed...barefoot doesn't mean advanced...it is almost like a tutor; it tells you VERY honestly where your technical flaws are.

Splitting the toe will help to a very small extent...but nothing compared to completely segmented toes, such as in the Vibram Five-Fingers design.

The concept of replacing the outer shell to save money is a good one. Quite innovative, and one I'm sure many traceurs will appreciate. It looks to be cost effective, durable and appealing for the fashionable ones.

As for not having laces...fairly cosmetic. Laces tighten the shoe effectively, and it is rare that they'd come untied to an annoying extent. What's more annoying is a shoe that is harder to adjust. Nike once had a line of shoes where you had fabric zipped over the laces...something like that would achieve the same protection of the laces.

Just my few cents on this shoe. Personally I'm an advocate of Asics and Vibram Five-Fingers, just so you know where I'm coming from.

[vocaldigital23]

Kev- It's all good man. Not harsh at all. I am not a traceur, so the idea of training in a barefoot state to strengthen your feet and legs and bring your body closer to it's natural state was something suggested by your peers on APK. For everyone that hates the split toe, somebody else loves it. The dichotomy of design! Understand that once you start adding laces, lace covers etc you also add COST and weight...so everybody wants something for nothing. lol. Of course. This stretch-to-fit durable and recyclable solution seemed like the most efficient approach to me. It was intended for people who want to feel a step above barefoot with some added cushioning and protection. Again, I will have some non-split toe designs with more cushioning and support that may appeal to you more personally. I found there was a wide range of likes and dislikes among traceurs, but this is for the most elite who would like more of a barefoot feel in the outdoor elements. I would imagine training outside in the 5-fingers would cause stress fractures, no? This shoe would offer more impact protection than those, so I suppose I'm a not confused.

Thanks for you feedback everyone!

-TH

[Kev]

Training Barefoot isn't a strength training exercise, although it does bring you closer to nature. Having a shoe to replicate it helps as the shoes provide some protection against glass penetrating your foot. So the concept is still good, but I just don't think it should be tagged as advanced...more so just have the three available.

The 5-fingers still cause stress fractures, and only offer protection against sharp stones, glass, syringes etc. No shock absorbtion at all, and I like this because it makes damn sure that you have proper techniques (mostly on landings). As soon as my technique is permanent, I will stop training Barefoot in the interest of longevity. Barefoot training is damaging to your body, but our bodies rebuild so it's all good. However as you get older, the rebuilding takes longer and eventually stops.

Laces + Lace covers being more expensive and adding cost is something that escaped me. So I concede that point. Split toe, it's in fashion these days...i've seen tonnes of brands utilising it for aesthetic value. As I said, split toe helps more than non split toe, and completely segmented helps even more. So the design is one that could, in theory, help a lot of traceurs and shape the future of Parkour-Shoe Manufacturing.

I'd love to test them out and see what they're like, as many other people have said, so you've definitely captivated our interest

[vocaldigital23]

Thanks Kev!

I just whipped up a new version with a black lycra ankle sock and no split toe- but articulated the toe bumper and adjusted the collar a bit.

[Alex]

just like kev, i don't mean to seem like i hate your shoe idea or anything, this is just my opinion based on my experience

as a function for this shoe, "helping people progress to barefoot" is a bit unnecessary. the only reason that people experience pain while training barefoot is that they are treating their feet like they've got shoes on. the human skeleton is not designed to take the impact of landing on concrete. we aren't even designed to take the impact of running on concrete with no ill effect. if done barefoot, these things can lead you to injury. shoes lessen the impact to a degree but they have the negative effects of changing your posture i.e. the "raised heel" mentioned earlier in the topic

luckily our wonderful biological design allows us to adapt to these adjustments and become strong enough to last, injury free, until we die. it is when people rush this process (for instance: doing drops and sprinting and armjumps barefoot the first time you ever remove your shoes to move.) that we get blood blisters and sore ankles etc.

all that people need to do is simply take their shoes off. BAM! they've progressed to barefoot. it is then their choice to either take it easy and only do things that cause them no pain or discomfort or to overdo it and think that they aren't ready to train barefoot and buy a shoe that they don't need, to do it for them.

I just want to say that creating a shoe for practitioners that does not alter posture and doesn't coop the toes up (which is also not natural and can have negative effects on the body), while being cheap, easy to get hold of and of the same standard of grip, absorption and comfort as say, Nike Darts and Kalenjis, is a brilliant idea! and one that few people are willing to ask us about before they make a shoe "for parkour". so well done vocaldigital23

the fact that all previous attempts at making shoes specifically for us have been done with no traceur input, just goes to show how much we need someone who is really after a product that WE can be proud to use because they're awesome. instead of the crappy Ariakes, the gay Innov8ts and as for Urban Freeflow's collaboration with Adidas: THEY'RE -Censored- -Censored-! hahah XD

[Robin]

Sadly, I bought the inov-8's after searching for hours on the internet and seeing nothing but good reviews but after using them, I've decided they're nothing special. I've been wanting to get my hands on a pair of Kalenjis but I've not been able to get to any Decathlon stores.

Also, In my opinion. The thing which changes the feel of barefoot from training with shoes is the arch of the foot, it makes such a big difference to how you move.

[Lukman]

I reckon...

I like it, but I want to try it.

Keep the toe split. I like it when the ball of the foot remains in the same position relative to the respective area of the sole of the shoe.

If you think it's ugly, feel free not to look down. Maybe wear a brightly coloured tie to draw attention away from your feet. To be honest, the split doesn't have to show externally. The only things I would grip with the split would be other peoples' shoelaces.

Also, I'd like it to be the correct shape for a human foot. This shoe looks a little narrow. When I was young I got into the bad habit of using my feet, and as a consequence, my little toes feel scrunched when I wear most shoes. Maybe that's why I like fivefingers.

I don't hugely care whether it's laced or not, so long as I can do them nice and tight, and they stay tight.

I would, however, like the instep and the tops of the toes to be tougher. A grippy upper would be nice too. Not just because I like to use the wrong parts of my shoes. Mostly because accidents will happen, and I was disappointed when my fivefingers began to tear and split. Even more conventionally styled shoes tend to have unusual weaknesses. With every pair of Asics I have worn, and then my Inov-8s, the different materials of the shoe would peel apart from each other. This struck me as odd; more expensive shoes seemed to have more layers and parts, which means they are more inclined to fall apart when you twist and bend the shoe through use.

In short, I'd like something that gives me the control of fivefingers, but I would be happy to wear when skidding down walls, playing with fire, or kicking someone. Not that I've ever tried to combine these things.

[poetry]

Have you thought about producting a questionaire to ask the community what functions are they are looking for in a shoe?

[vocaldigital23]

Poetry- yeah, I started from the ground up by doing that on the APK site...and that's basically what this is.

-TH

[Andie]

Vocal I think it is a pretty neat idea. I would keep the split toe because i think it would really help for using it in the same way it is used in rock climbing/bouldering, trying to place your toe on a wall crack is pretty hard to do with a regular shoe since there is no sharp point or a way only use the toe, plus if you don't use it in this way it wont have any effect on you training movements. Like other said i would say add some cushioning to them and flexibility, which is probably the weakest point of the ariakes, they are wearing a pair of snake-skin cowboy boots, not to mention the weight. One that seems to be mentioned is do not try to add "super grip" like some companies are doing, this may be good but it becomes detrimental to technique, you start relying on the grip of the shoe rather than your technique (have seen this a lot with ariake and 5-10 users). I imagine we don't need socks with this shoe, coolio, make sure it is breathable and that it doesn't feel all wet when your feet are sweating (i don't think anyone likes the swampfeet feeling.) Other than that it's great man, hope it comes out, would like to try it.

[vocaldigital23]

Made a few more adjustments...